Juleyka Lantigua-Williams shares her strategy for audience growth and how it's put her shows on the path to reach 1 million downloads by the end of the year. Here's what I learned in this episode: audience growth isn't something that magically happens once you start publishing episodes. If you want to grow your audience and get more listeners and fans, there's three important questions to ask yourself. These questions are important regardless of how long you've been podcasting. The three questions are: 1. Who is the ideal listener for my show? 2. What needs do they have that I'm trying to address and fulfill with my show? 3. Where is my ideal listener spending their time and attention, and what's my plan for getting their attention?
Juleyka Lantigua-Williams shares her strategy for audience growth and how it's put her shows on the path to reach 1 million downloads by the end of the year.
Here's what I learned in this episode: Audience growth isn't something that magically happens once you start publishing episodes.
If you want to grow your audience and get more listeners and fans, there's three important questions to ask yourself. These questions are important regardless of how long you've been podcasting.
The three questions are:
1. Who is the ideal listener for my show?
2. What needs do they have that I'm trying to address and fulfill with my show?
3. Where is my ideal listener spending their time and attention, and what's my plan for getting their attention?
•••
Juleyka Lantigua-Williams is the founder of Lantigua Williams & Co, an audio production company. She describes her role as building teams that make podcasts and films.
So a little more about Juleyka:
Juleyka is the Founder/CEO of Lantigua Williams & Co., an award-winning and Peabody-nominated digital media studio that builds teams that create beautiful experiences in digital audio and film. She is a journalism veteran with 20 years of experience as a writer, reporter, editor, syndicated columnist, book editor/scout, lecturer, and audio producer. Lantigua Williams & Co. produces original shows like Latina to Latina, 70 Million, and Feeling My Flo, and provides tailored consulting and white-label production services for clients that include Macmillan Podcasts, the Phi Beta Kappa Society, WHYY, KQED, and Civil Beat.
Juleyka says she first fell in love with podcasts after hearing Serial. After devouring that show, she became fascinated with the way story-telling techniques were being used in audio. She got the chance to work on Code Switch at NPR, and fell in love with the process of making podcasts.
I met Juleyka last year when Lantigua Williams & Co started using Simplecast for hosting. After several interesting and insightful conversations about podcasting, I asked her if she would be willing to be a guest on my show to talk more about her approach to audience acquisition.
Couple quick things to mention before we get into the interview:
First, Juleyka is hosting a series of webinars about working in podcasting she's calling Podcasting Seriously. If you're interested in getting into working in the podcast industry, or if you'd like to take your podcasting skills to the next level, I'd encourage you to check it out and sign up. Visit https://www.podcastingseriously.com/ to learn more.
Second, we recorded this interview using Squadcast, which dropped the call multiple times. Kind of a bummer, but that's how it goes sometimes. Next time I'll be sure to record locally as well. Luckily I was able to edit the show in a way that the drops aren't noticeable.
Alright, let's get into my conversation about audience acquisition (and more) with Juleyka Lantigua-Williams.
Q: Who is the ideal listener for your show?
If you're like me, you might answer that question with something slightly vague, like, ”My ideal listener is someone who is interested in making a great podcast.”
That's a decent start, but let's dig deeper. Let's get specific.
So where do you start? What are the fundamentals?
So many people start podcasting before they've identified their show's number one biggest fan. You've probably heard about creating for an ideal listener before, but Juleyka takes the idea to the next level.
Juleyka looks for factual evidence for what she believes is true about her ideal listener, who even has a name and a face (check out the website).
Juleyka's ideal listener even has a name: Kenya.
Why this matters: Knowing your ideal listener gives you a target. It will help guide your decisions as you're planning out your content and pitching the show to advertisers.
If you're thinking about starting a show, answer this question:
"Will my ideal listener listen to this show?"
If you know that she will listen, then pursue the idea.
Once you've figured out who your ideal listener is, start thinking about what their needs are. What podcasts do they listen to and why? What are their needs? How can you make something that addresses those needs?
These can be difficult questions to answer, but if you know a few people who match the profile of your ideal listener, you should ask them which podcasts they listen to, and why. I think you'll find the answers interesting and thought-provoking.
"Once you know who she is, you need to figure out where she is and go there. Where is she? How can I take the show to her?""
Where is your ideal listener spending their time and attention?
Don't wait for them to discover you. Take the show to them.
Juleyka mentioned looking for consumer data about her ideal listener, which is something I've never really looked into getting before. I didn't get a chance to ask her for more details, but here's a link I found on Google that might be a good place to start: Where Can You Buy Big Data? Here Are The Biggest Consumer Data Brokers
Whether you’re an independent creative or someone looking to make a career move to podcasting, this series is for you. With so many excellent 101 resources available about HOW TO podcast, it’s time to take a deeper look at skills and ideas that will take you a step further into podcasting as an industry. Let’s talk, seriously.
•••
Connect with me at https://www.aarondowd.com, and get more podcast episodes at podcastingwithaaron.com.
Thanks for listening!
Aaron Dowd
July 23, 2020
Fort Worth, Texas
Aaron Dowd:
So this audience acquisition theory, tell me a little bit more about this. It sounds like something you've been thinking about for a while.
Juleyka Lantigua-Williams:
Yeah. I love how you actually call it that, because that just makes it sound so much fancier. It's really simple. Actually. It's very simple. And I think in the last three years at Lantigua-Williams, we've been able to really test out that theory, which is the best part. I basically have my own lab and I can test out this theory.
And the theory is super simple. The theory is that you need one listener, right? And that you need to know as much about that listener as it is possible without invading their personal privacy.
And so in many instances, people imagine, they create a reality-based but slightly fictionalized version of their ideal listener. So my listener, somebody might be thinking is a sports fan who roots for their team, who has been a team generationally in her family, right? So this is theoretically speaking and that's a good place to start. That's actually an excellent place to start.
Where I make it a little bit more mathematical is I go out and try to find factual evidence for what I have come to believe about my listener. And so if anyone goes to LantiguaWilliamsandco.com, LantiguaWilliams.com right now, you will see an actual physical picture of my company's ideal listener. She is Kenya. She's 26. She's a first gen Afro-Latina. She is a college graduate. She is in the first five or seven years of a career that she's very happy with, that she wants to pursue. She is not currently in a relationship, but she's a serial dater. She likes being in companionship. She's the oldest child of three children in a two parent family. She lives in one of the top 25 markets in the United States, one of the top 25 cities. She is a digital native. I mean she basically was born with an iPhone in her hand and she is very digitally savvy. She's a gamer. She likes to take weekend trips with her girlfriends. Her favorite shade of OPI nail polish is Samoan Sand. I mean, I know her.
I know her and I have the statistics to prove who she is. And furthermore, I have statistics that say to me, there's a couple of million Kenya's in the United States, because if you think about there are 60 million Latinos in the United States, I can whittle out three to five million who basically fed a few of those characteristics that I have ascribed to Kenya. And so what does that do? That gives me a target because now I can ask myself, well, where does Kenya shop? Where does she like to dine out? What types of movies is she into? What's her favorite brand? And I can go out and find answers for those because I know that those industries collect consumer data, right?
And so it's very easy for me to go and learn more about Kenya as I'm planning editorially and as I'm trying to pitch the show to potential advertisers, because there are statistical measures that tell me that there are many, many, many, many women who fit 80% of that profile. And so when I think about creating a new show, I ask myself two simple questions, right? Because I already know that Kenya is my ideal listener. Everything I make is for her.
And so let me also clarify that Kenya is the avatar for all our original shows. Obviously our clients have different goals for their audiences and obviously we work with them to identify their ideal listener. But when we're talking about our creative things that we're putting out into the world, Kenya is our ideal listener. And so when I'm thinking about a show concept or when I get pitched the shows, which happens a few times a year, I think about will Kenya listen, right? And I have to answer that question with concrete evidence from her life that says she will listen, right? If I get pitched the show about golf, it's an automatic no. She's not going to listen to that show, right? And so I know that statistically, that she's not going to listen to a show about golf. So that's easy for me.
So if the answer is yes, for an original idea or for a pitch for a show, then I pursue that idea. And then there are a bunch of other qualifications and characteristics that I'm looking for in a show. But if the first answer is yes, then I know that it's worth pursuing to see where it leads. That doesn't mean that I'm going to make that show. It might mean that I ask for a full proposal. It might mean that I ask to see a script. It could mean a bunch of things.
The second question that I ask myself immediately is if she herself is not going to listen, does she have someone in her life with whom she will share?
Aaron:
So will she listen? Will she share? Yeah.
Juleyka:
Right. Because the whole theory behind having one listener is that this person basically becomes your spokesperson to everyone in their life. And that's why I focus so much on the energy, so much of the energy of our shows on that ideal listener, because what we want is to create a multiplying effect. If she can not wait to get the new episode on Monday, if she re-listens to her favorite episodes over and over again, if she finds herself quoting the guests that we have, then I know that we're connecting with her and that because this brings her joy, she is going to share with other people.
So let me walk you through how that works in real life. So our first show, big, big show, Latina to Latina, bullseye. That's for Kenya, right? Literally, that is for Kenya. But then Mia Warren and I created Feeling My Flow. It's a show about menstruation for tweens. Well, it's not for Kenya because she's way past her tween stage, right? And at this point she's been menstruating for 12 years. She's probably got a good handle on it. But Kenya's friends have nieces and nephews, right? Her cousins have little kids in their life. One of her friends is a middle school teacher who has to teach the dreaded sex ed class every year, right? So I know that there are people in her life with whom she can share Feeling My Flow, right? Of course, Feeling My Flow also has it's own target audience, but I'm thinking in the grander scope of as a company, who are we going after? Whose needs are we trying to fill? So I'm always thinking about Kenya.
So then do 70 Million, right? 70 Million is a show about the role of jails in criminal justice. Okay. Well, Kenya is not in jail. She's never been in jail, but wait, statistically speaking, and this is a fact, I know that because she's a black woman in the United States, she is more than three times more likely to be related to or know someone who has been involved with the criminal justice system statistically speaking. I don't have to guess about this.
And so understanding this about Kenya and understanding that the black women and brown women in her life also fall under that statistic, I am very likely to find interested listeners in that group of people because they've been personally affected either a brother, a cousin an uncle, someone along the line close to them has been mired in the criminal justice system. So you see what happens when you focus on the one listener, you are able to produce content that is related to one another, but very different from one another, but serve the same listeners, multiple spheres of her life, right? And so that's what I'm trying to do.
So the last show that we just created which I decided to take the plunge on and host myself, it's called How To Talk To Mami And Papi About Anything, right? And it's a weekly conversation with a first gen American, right, about miscommunication, disconnection, that inevitable generational gap between us and our parents, right? Bullseye. That show is for Kenya and all her friends who are the first to go to college, who are the first to work on Wall Street, who are the first to date outside of their culture, who are the first to decide not to have children, who are the first to go to therapy. There are endless conversations that have to be had because first gen Americans, hyphenated Americans, are living a very different existence than their immigrant parents, right?
And so when I devise the concept for that show, I knew that that show was for Kenya and for all of her friends and the response has been fantastic. The response has been everything from, "Oh my God, where was the show 20 years ago when I was coming up. Oh my God, this is helping me to understand my daughter and my son. Oh my God, I never knew how to have this conversation and now I'm going to try and have this conversation with my mami or with my papi," right? But then with that show, we are intentionally branching out beyond the Latino audience.
So we've had a Jewish first gen person. We've had Vietnamese first gen people. We're about to have an Afro-Panamanian. I mean, we've had a Mexican-American. And so the common denominator is that as a hyphenated American, you are having experiences that can create tension between you and your parents. Let's talk about it, right? But that was for Kenya. And now it's for Kenya and all of her diverse circle of friends, because she definitely travels among a much broader sort of swath of American society than her parents, then her older coworkers, than her college professors, right? So I'm also taking advantage of that connectivity and the elasticity that there is now in forming bonds between first gen Americans, because it's that common experience that really binds them together.
Aaron:
I love that. So it's this intense focus on knowing who you're creating the show for and then asking the two questions, will she listen? Will she share?
Juleyka:
Yeah. And then the third, I mean the work after that is where is she and how do I get the show to her, right? So the first part of the conversation was about editorial. This part of the conversation is, okay, so she's on Instagram, let's go to Instagram. And today actually, as a matter of fact, we hit 10,000 followers on Latina To Latina, which was amazing because we have the most dedicated social media editor. Shout out to Manuela and she's been killing it on Instagram, right? And we know that all our Kenya's are very active on Instagram. So we go to Instagram every day. We bring her fresh content. We try to sort of flip it and re-imagine how we present the content to her, right?
And so we also know that she's in professional organizations, right? Professional Latina organizations. So I try to connect with those. I try to give workshops at those just to raise the visibility of the show among those young professional Latinas, right? So that's the other part, that once you know who she is, you've got to figure out where she is, right, and then go there. This is not passive at all. Because if you're like me, your audience is very niche, right? Very, very niche. And so you want that. It actually gives you a great advantage.
And so the other thing about having this sort of one listener approach is that when I go to advertisers, I can literally say, "You're not advertising on any show that can guarantee you this many college educated, first and second generation Latinas who are also professionals." I can say that with confidence because I've spent two years building that audience and not only bringing them to Latina To Latina, but also bringing them into podcasting. So many new podcast fans have come into the space because we've made a show for them. And then they get here and they're like, "Oh, there's all this other cool stuff going on. Oh my God. Look at this other show. What? I didn't know I was into true crime. I didn't know." Literally.
Aaron:
People love true crime.
Juleyka:
Yes, they do.
Aaron:
So will she listen? Will she share? Where is she? How do I get the show in front of her or to her?
Juleyka:
Yep. Yep. So those are the fundamentals. I mean, there's a million other questions in between as you go, right? So we, for example, experimented a little bit with the length of the episodes, right? So the first year, we were like, all right, let's go to 30, let's go to 35. And then we watched our listen through rate. And then there were a couple of times where we had really special episodes and we'd go to 40, 43 and we'd watch the listen through rate. And what we learned was that Kenya has about 28 minutes that she can give us her concentrated attention. So now, guess what the average length of our episodes is?
Aaron:
28 minutes.
Juleyka:
28 minutes.
Aaron:
People have been asking me forever, how long should my podcast be? My answer now is just going to be 25 minutes any time anyone asks me. Just 25 minutes.
Juleyka:
That's a good answer. So with the very new show, with How To Talk To Mami And Papi About Anything, I beforehand said, we're not going past 20 minutes. And it's very difficult to cut a show to 20 minutes, but we do it and it is working because what happens is that we get emails and DMs from people who are like, "Oh my God, I just discovered your show and I listened to six episodes already." And I'm like, wait, that's not a lot of time.
Aaron:
It's a couple hours.
Juleyka:
Yeah. You could do it at work in between other things, you know? So I'm experimenting, not really experimenting. I am responding to what our listeners behavior is, right? So that's the thing. Making a podcast is not just an editorial exercise. This is really metrics. I love metrics. I love getting into Simplecast and just playing around. I love to drill down to zip codes.
Aaron:
Tell me about this.
Juleyka:
I have a couple of codes pointed out where literally I kid you not, this will show you my OCD side. So when I realized that I could drill down to the zip code, I picked five zip codes around the country that are sort of representative the highest concentrations of Latinos around the country and every month I go and I check how much we have grown in that zip code and we've been growing consistently.
Aaron Dowd:
Wow.
Juleyka:
Yeah. Right? But this is not something I can go to advertiser with, right? Yet. Not until I get multiple zeros behind that number, right? Right now, it's a growth under a hundred every month over month, right? But that's big for me. That's really big for me. Oh, wait. When is this airing?
Aaron:
Why, were you about to mention Podcasting Seriously?
Juleyka:
Oh, no. I can talk about that. No, I was going to say that. So, I was speaking about tracking metrics. Our 100th episode is airing on June 22nd. And on June 22nd, we're going to announce that we've hit almost 650,000 downloads and that we are going for a million, one million by January 1st, 2021. And we're making it public. We're getting all our listeners involved. We're getting all our families involved. All our friends. We're going to hit a million by January 1st, 2021. That's the goal. And I'm so excited to do that because our response, whenever we get a compliment from a listener, is the same. We make the show for you. Thank you for listening. We make the show for you. And for me, this is a true, true experiment in showing them the show is for you. So our success is your success. And so let's do this.
Aaron:
Okay. So a million listeners, and I will be angry if all 500 of my listeners don't go and check out the show and at least give you a download. (I'm just kidding.)
Juleyka:
We'll take those 500. We will take those 500.
Aaron:
Exactly. And I know they have friends too. So I'm just telling all of you, you better go listen. Okay. So you were in the middle of saying something before Squadcast dropped.
Juleyka:
No, no. I think I got to the one million, just how this is another example, but let's talk about Podcasting, Seriously, because I'm also really excited about this and we have one minute. So Podcasting, Seriously, another experiment. As you can see, you have a very high threshold for experimentation because I like to get the learning over with quickly and the mistakes, I like to just get them over with quickly. That's just a driving philosophy in my life.
And so decided to launch Podcasting, Seriously, because I have so many sessions talking to people who are mid-level, who already have an established podcast, who want to just make bolder moves, want to try different things. And I was just like, okay, like Aaron, who's pointing at himself. And so I thought, you know what? I've thought so much about this and I've talked to so many people about this. I need to put this down on paper and I need to be more organized about this because I've also tested out a bunch of the things that I tell people to do. And so I can talk about how did I set it up, what the results were.
And so then I thought, okay, well, people should pay for this because it takes a long time to do this stuff. So I got Denise, she's one of the former organizers of Werk It, who's wonderful. And so we set this up in less than a month and we're almost sold out of the three paths early bird option. And we've been absolutely stunned. It's been amazing. And we have a questionnaire so people can tell us exactly why they want to do the workshop and what they're looking for. And so I'm literally going to go through all of those and shape the conversation on the presentation accordingly. So I'm super excited because I love podcasting. And I want as many talented people from all kinds of fields to come into podcasting because we don't just need good producers. We need good marketers. We need good publicists. We need good visual artists. We need good photographers. So this is me basically trying to convert people from other fields into podcasting.
Aaron:
I know personally, there's a huge interest in it. So I'm really excited about this and I'm going to attend at least one of them.
Juleyka:
So it's podcastingseriously.com.
Aaron:
Podcasting seriously. I love that URL and that name. Well, I know you've got to go jump on another call, but I want to thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. Our conversations have always been really, really helpful and insightful for me and I'm excited that I get to share them with my listeners and I'll include links to everything on the show notes for this episode, which you can find at thepodcastdude.com and in your podcast app. So Juleyka, thank you so much again. Best of luck for everything. Be well, stay safe, and thank you again.
Juleyka:
Thank you, friend. You too. I love our conversations too.
Aaron Dowd:
We'll do it again then.